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 Post subject: USBDOS - Access FAT32 Filesystem on an USB Storage Device
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
Hi,

A preview of a new tool to access a FAT32 Filesystem on USB Storage can be
downloaded at Sourceforge:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... _id=175280

Sourcecode and short Command Summary USBDOS Program is available in the
MicroUSB Wiki:
http://www.strotmann.de/twiki/bin/view/ ... CartUsbDos

The current version is not really useful for End-Users. It is more a preview
what will be available in the next weeks.

This tool will be expanded in the
next weeks and will hopfully evolve in a full DOS for USB FAT32 Devices.
It will be possible to copy File from USB Device to the Atari and back in
the next versions. This version can be used to explor the Device and to
list the Root Directory on an USB Storage.

Best regards

Carsten Strotmann
MicroUSB Project
for Atari XL/XE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:23 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:46 am
Posts: 48
cas,

This is really awesome! This will save me alot of headaches trying to play alot of my favorite 8bit classics and also some of the new things posted!

Will there be a file limit per directory like there is with existing DOS's?

I presume the 8.3 file format will need to be followed as well?



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
Short note: I tested an external USB CD-ROM/RW (One-Technologies AluWriter) with the USB Cart and USBDOS and USBTEST. Seems to work, I can read SCSI Device Inquiry Information, Drive Capacity and Sector.

Question: Does it makes sense to have CD-ROM (read) driver for the Atari?

Carsten


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
goochman wrote:
cas,

This is really awesome! This will save me alot of headaches trying to play alot of my favorite 8bit classics and also some of the new things posted!

Will there be a file limit per directory like there is with existing DOS's?


No, FAT23 has no file limit on the root directory, as a ROOT directory is allocated as a normal file on disk. With FAT12 and FAT16 there is a limit for files in the root directory.

goochman wrote:
I presume the 8.3 file format will need to be followed as well?


Yes, for the beginning. FAT32 Long Filename support is possible, but M$ has now a patent on this technology --> see http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/11/0555252

Carsten


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:46 am
Posts: 48
cas wrote:
Short note: I tested an external USB CD-ROM/RW (One-Technologies AluWriter) with the USB Cart and USBDOS and USBTEST. Seems to work, I can read SCSI Device Inquiry Information, Drive Capacity and Sector.

Question: Does it makes sense to have CD-ROM (read) driver for the Atari?

Carsten


I would suggest getting the Flashdisk stuff to work first - If adding CDROM afterwards is not a big deal then yes thiw ould be a great 2nd option



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:32 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
goochman wrote:
I would suggest getting the Flashdisk stuff to work first -


Yes, sure.

Carsten


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:20 am
Posts: 33
Location: The Netherlands
cas wrote:
goochman wrote:
cas,

This is really awesome! This will save me alot of headaches trying to play alot of my favorite 8bit classics and also some of the new things posted!

Will there be a file limit per directory like there is with existing DOS's?


No, FAT23 has no file limit on the root directory, as a ROOT directory is allocated as a normal file on disk. With FAT12 and FAT16 there is a limit for files in the root directory.

goochman wrote:
I presume the 8.3 file format will need to be followed as well?


Yes, for the beginning. FAT32 Long Filename support is possible, but M$ has now a patent on this technology --> see http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/11/0555252

Carsten


FAT32 support would be cool, atleast something like it... call is FAT+ on the 8-bit, I can't think of any person at M$ that will dissassemble your program and sue you for reading FAT32 :lol:



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:09 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
TXG/MNX wrote:

FAT32 support would be cool, atleast something like it... call is FAT+ on the 8-bit, I can't think of any person at M$ that will dissassemble your program and sue you for reading FAT32 :lol:


It's not that easy. The USBDOS code is Open Source, and as such I will not use patented technologies. Also I have a life as software developer, I don't want to risk that. FAT32 is not patented, only LFNS (Long File Name Support), which was introduced to Windows the same time as FAT32, but is totally independet of FAT32.

Ciao

Carsten


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 Post subject: Longer filenames
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:25 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:09 am
Posts: 122
Location: Galactic 0,0,0
Hello all,

I use longer filenames in linux or a fashion there of and it's open source... maybe the filename answers can be found there? As I understand it M$ has a patent on the way they do it! :roll: In fact longer filenames are used or done in other implementations 8) .

The use of nicknames or Full names is now trademarked. Use in any form such as 'J' or The Outlaw 'Jesse James' or 'John Wesley Harden' with be met with legal action... Punishable to the full extent of the LAW! :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Longer filenames
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:02 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Germany
_The Doctor__ wrote:
Hello all,

I use longer filenames in linux or a fashion there of and it's open source... maybe the filename answers can be found there? As I understand it M$ has a patent on the way they do it! :roll: In fact longer filenames are used or done in other implementations 8) .

The use of nicknames or Full names is now trademarked. Use in any form such as 'J' or The Outlaw 'Jesse James' or 'John Wesley Harden' with be met with legal action... Punishable to the full extent of the LAW! :lol:


Implementing Long File Name Support is really easy. Butt I guess it will be removed from Linux and other systems as well in the next month. The patent on this was pending many years, and just in beginning of January 2006 MS got the patent granted.

The USBDOS Sourcecode is free, anyone can download it and implement LFNS in it. It's really easy.

I don't think we need LFNS on the Atari anyway, because most DOS versions on the Atari also only understand 8.3 names.

Carsten

Carsten


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 Post subject: Longer file names
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:41 am 
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Well I guess we can just subdir the names we want on...
D1:>alternat>reality>thecity>xxxxx.atr
no biggy!



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 Post subject: we can use long filenames
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:46 am 
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No worries!
Since we have a version of Microsft basic for our computer we actually can use the long filenames and FAT. This is not even an issue. I asked my Lawyer. Just make sure that MSOFT Basic is in you library of software or any file/ program created with it and your golden! Yes!

_The Doctor__

Msoft claims it under Microsoft basic as the original art for the Fat and file name system... cool huh?



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 Post subject: Re: we can use long filenames
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:21 am
Posts: 251
_The Doctor__ wrote:
No worries!
Since we have a version of Microsft basic for our computer we actually can use the long filenames and FAT. This is not even an issue. I asked my Lawyer. Just make sure that MSOFT Basic is in you library of software or any file/ program created with it and your golden! Yes!


That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. A patent disallows other people from using your "invention" in their own products. How can owning a copy of MS Basic give you the right to incorporate LFN support into your product and then distribute it?


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 Post subject: longer file names
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:48 pm 
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They are selling the device not the file system....

It's real simple, you can't sue maxtor for selling a drive because the software on it was installed by a user etc.... If you are using or have microsoft basic you are covered for using those systems especially since thay are using that as an example of their original art. It is an extension of that software that was never 'sold' to anyone. MSoft goes so far as to say it's part of that software etc. So unless thay are 'Selling' the software (which they are not) then the use of the driver is still fair use for anyone with MSoft basic or any of the other titles they site in their arguements expressed or implied.
BTW Fat is nothing more than GAT mixed with CP/M. For those who do not know GAT was invented by Tandy Radio Shack and stands for Granule Allocation Table... we all know what CP/M Q/DOS and MS DOS are so Radio Shack actually should be holding the cards on this one.. Anybody point this out to Radio Shack yet? I learned That in High school where we used TRS computers and they were networked together and yes we had Filenames within our GAT.

_The Doctor__



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