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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Which IC are you using?

When you say 'the same card combo prevented the machine from booting at all', you mean the boot menu won't even appear?

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:27 am
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I'm using an LS574.

What boot menu? As I said: I'm using the SDX driver. In fact, since I'm just testing the interface, I took the flash chip out altogether for the moment. SDX is fitted inside the machine...



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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:59 pm 
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Ok, so when you say 'the same card combo prevented the machine from booting at all', do you mean you got a black screen and no software ever ran on the Atari, or the boot process of SDX didn't complete?

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:13 pm 
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You should also be aware that poppping the flash rom out of the socket does not disable the cartridge. The Atari will still see a cartridge, except the contents of the ROM will all read $FF. You will have to disconnect RD4/RD5 and leave CCTRL connected if you want only the MyIDE hardware to be present and the Atari to not see a blank empty ROM with the flash chip removed.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:05 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:27 am
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Well, since SDX can disable/enable an external cart, I found it odd that the system hung with the flash chip inserted (I assume it's because of a bad flash I had: the chip is full of garbage, hence its removal).

I haven't been able to establish specifics with the non-booting machine yet (this was with the flash chip removed, and IntSDX present again). I'll flash SDX to the cart ROM and try it on a stock machine later today.



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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:51 pm 
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Do all the machines you are testing on have the internal stacked cartridge?

I'm not looking for something to blame it on, I'm just curious how much propagation time this is adding to the s5/cctrl lines, and what type of device is being used to re-generate them. The address lines and clock are probably still unbuffered, but I imagine at least the cartridge select is being delayed and going long at the end of the cycle.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:42 am 
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Never mind I found the schematics and equations. It looks like you will be adding 7-25ns to /S4 and /S5 even in the off position, depending on the speed of the GAL you used, but neither of those should effect the IDE operation.

Probably worth a try to change a LS573 as Hias suggested to see if additional setup time works. I'll try to figure out an appropriate value for the RC pair the next time I sit down with the Atari.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:20 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:27 am
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OK - thanks. I'll need to see a detailed explanation of Hias's solution, since it's not something I'd feel confident patching up on the basis of his description. :)



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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:14 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:53 am
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Problem: How can folks (like me) that currently have good results tell if the proposed changes actually make an improvement? Probably could with a 'scope, but those are not real common. Would it be possible to make a MyDos version of MyIDE that is fast enough to get marginal systems to fail, and then if the "fix" is applied we could see if things begin working? I'm not very excited about hacking my carts or internal MyIDE's without some concrete way to measure improvement. Obviously, if things are currently non-functional, that is a different story.
-Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:21 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:27 am
Posts: 98
Location: United Kingdom
The best way to test the stability of the system is with an "unforgiving" driver, i.e. the SDX one, which currently doesn't tolerate dropped bytes or dummy reads. Any driver with even marginal correction for these kinds of problems is going to cover up instability in normal use. I was going to make a cross-platform stability test for this interface, but I've had too much to do lately.

Certainly, if my Flash+IDE cart was working with the SDX driver, I wouldn't be messing with it. But the point is that if it works with the SDX driver, it WORKS.

The BIOS Sijmen is currently working on seems a lot faster than the old one, but whether it will show up "marginal" interfaces is another question.



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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:13 pm 
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74x573 w/ a RC pair to extend the hold time seems to work well.

The A->B time in the image is 120ns.

I'll try to post some instructions for changing from the 574 mod to the 573 mod tomorrow.

The parts required are a 74x573 (LS if you can get it) and a 220pf capacitor.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Here are my test results with the 74573 fix. If you guys can think of any other software I should test before writing up instructions on how to apply it, let me know.

--

Here are my test results with MyIDE 4.6. I used a 74HCT573 and 220pf npo capacitor.

NTSC 65XE - MyIDE 4.6 - Not fixed Cartridge - Transcend Module - No Errors
NTSC 65XE - MyIDE 4.6 - Not fixed Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - No Errors
NTSC 65XE - MyIDE 4.6 - SECAM Fix Cartridge - Transcend Module - No Errors
NTSC 65XE - MyIDE 4.6 - SECAM Fix Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - No Errors
NTSC 65XE - MyIDE 4.6 - 74LS573 Fix Cartridge - Transcend Module - No Errors
NTSC 65XE - MyIDE 4.6 - 74LS573 Fix Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - No Errors

NTSC 1200XL (STOCK) - MyIDE 4.6 - Not fixed Cartridge - Transcend Module - READ ERROR/WRITE ERROR/Rebooting
NTSC 1200XL (STOCK) - MyIDE 4.6 - Not fixed Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - No Errors
NTSC 1200XL (STOCK) - MyIDE 4.6 - SECAM Fix Cartridge - Transcend Module - READ ERROR/WRITE ERROR/Rebooting
NTSC 1200XL (STOCK) - MyIDE 4.6 - SECAM Fix Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - No Errors
NTSC 1200XL (STOCK) - MyIDE 4.6 - 74LS573 Fix Cartridge - Transcend Module - NO ERRORS (!)
NTSC 1200XL (STOCK) - MyIDE 4.6 - 74LS573 Fix Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - No Errors

SECAM 800XL - MyIDE 4.6 - Not fixed Cartridge - Transcend Module - WRITE ERROR/Rebooting
SECAM 800XL - MyIDE 4.6 - Not fixed Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - WRITE ERROR/Rebooting
SECAM 800XL - MyIDE 4.6 - SECAM Fix Cartridge - Transcend Module - No Errors
SECAM 800XL - MyIDE 4.6 - SECAM Fix Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - No Errors
SECAM 800XL - MyIDE 4.6 - 74LS573 Fix Cartridge - Transcend Module - No Errors
SECAM 800XL - MyIDE 4.6 - 74LS573 Fix Cartridge - 32MB CF Card - No Errors

RWTEST.COM completes sucessfully in all cases with the 573 fix and there are never any 'H' or other errors displayed.
Formatting, reading and writing with MyDOS completed successfully in all cases with the 573 fix, no errors displayed.

The 1200XL I used is a known bad machine with all sorts of morally questionable attempts at hardware modification and a known offender 6502. The improvement on that machine was very clear.

On the 1200XL and SECAM computers I used two additional stacked cartridge port extender boards to try and produce
errors. On the non-modified and 574 modified carts, this did produce even worse errors. With the 573 fix there
were still no errors.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:27 am
Posts: 98
Location: United Kingdom
This is excellent news. However, you should also test the SpartaDOS X MyIDE driver, the next version of which will be released tomorrow. If you want to send me some quick instructions on how to do this mod, I'll test it myself. I'll expecting the IC in a couple of days.



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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 2:37 pm 
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The parts used were:

74HCT573
220pf Capacitor

220pf was the minimally effective value. Testing with higher values might be worth it if you still have trouble.

1) Cut the traces shown, there are two on the front side just below the IDE connector, and one on the rear.

Image
Image

2) Take the 74LS573 and bend up all of the pins except 10 and 20.

Solder this chip in place on top of the 74245 IC on the PC, with only pins 10 and 20 soldered to the IC below.

Image

3) Make the following connections:

220pf capacitor: Connect across GND (Pin 10 of 74LS573) and CCTRL (Pin 11 of 74LS573) as shown below.

E IC -> GND IC (Pin 1 to Pin 10 on 74LS573)

A0 PCB -> A0 IC (Pin 2)
A1 PCB -> A1 IC (Pin 3)
A2 PCB -> A2 IC (Pin 4)

B0 IC -> B0 PCB (At IDE header pin shown, on front PCB)
B1 IC -> B1 PCB (At IDE header pin shown, on front PCB)
B2 IC -> B2 PCB (At IDE header pin shown, on rear PCB)

PCB CCTRL -> IC CCTRL (Pin 11 on 74LS573)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Also note that if you previously installed the mod with the GAL16V8 or 74LS574, you should remove the 'O2' connection you previously made, it is not reused.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Let's do something constructive about the MyIDE+F stabil
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:43 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:27 am
Posts: 98
Location: United Kingdom
Great - can't wait to test this. Should be a couple of days.



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