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 Post subject: Image Issues
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:11 pm 
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OK. I was able to load the Mule image into an image part (above 512 sec) but it doesn't seem to work. I see an "0001" on the screen and everything locks up. what am I doing wrong?

:shock:



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 Post subject: More Image Issues
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:59 pm 
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1. For Shawn - I loaded some images thru MyIDEMAN.COM and they appeared to load fine into 3.5f beta cart. However when I boot to image list in MyIDE, nothing appears except the 0001 <B> S

Loading them thru Mr. Atari's method works fine. Is there a MYIDEMAN compatibility issue with 3.5f?

2. WHen a program like 7 cities asks for a map disk etc, I understand that the map disk needs to be the next image slot? Or am I missing something. If so, how do I get the switcvh to occur?


:shock:



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 Post subject: MyIDEMan
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:19 pm 
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Is there a reason that MyIDEMAN.COM doesn't recognize the images loaded thru the joystick (> + FIRE) method?



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 Post subject: Re: More Image Issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:29 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:21 am
Posts: 251
Hi,

bf2k+ wrote:
1. For Shawn - I loaded some images thru MyIDEMAN.COM and they appeared to load fine into 3.5f beta cart. However when I boot to image list in MyIDE, nothing appears except the 0001 <B> S


Quote:
Is there a reason that MyIDEMAN.COM doesn't recognize the images loaded thru the joystick (> + FIRE) method?


The MYIDEMAN.COM (MyIDE Image Manager) program does not add the description to Sijmen's image slot (or vice versa.) Descriptions are a new feature of his OS that I don't yet support. You should still be able to boot the image, but the description will not show up in the MyIDE "START" image function.

I chose to use the last couple slots in the image space to store all the image descriptions, which gives me the ability to sort them as well as some other stuff. My program predates the ability to enter a description via the START function in the MyIDE OS, so this was the method I chose to deal with image descriptions, for better or worse.

Quote:
Loading them thru Mr. Atari's method works fine. Is there a MYIDEMAN compatibility issue with 3.5f?


The latest version of MYIDEMAN works fine with 3.5F. There is not currently a way to import/export descriptions from my "image table" to Sijmen's "START" image function. I will eventually write a utility to do this.

Quote:
2. WHen a program like 7 cities asks for a map disk etc, I understand that the map disk needs to be the next image slot? Or am I missing something. If so, how do I get the switcvh to occur?


Yes, that is right. You can then press CTRL-SHIFT-2 to insert that next disk. However, 7 Cities of Gold does not work with the MyIDE OS (at least that is my opinion from my own testing.)

These multi-disk games definitely do work (off the top of my head):

Adventures of Dr. Jones
Serpent Star
Ultima III
most Infocom adventures


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 Post subject: Re: More Image Issues
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:46 pm 
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Shawn Jefferson wrote:

... 7 Cities of Gold does not work with the MyIDE OS (at least that is my opinion from my own testing.)



Yes I came to that conclusion also. I can mount a map disk in APE drive 1 and then it seems to work. Perhaps something in 7C is destroying MyIDE? (I am guessing of course)

Thanks


:idea:



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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:10 am 
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3.5F has a compleet new Image routine.

First of all, you need a joystick in port-1 to move in the line.
up/down to change the image-number.
Go to "B" and press fire this will SET and BOOT this image.

Read the sticky "BETA-FLASHERS: 3.5F (MyIDE + 1Mb Flash cartridge)"

Cheers,
Sijmen.


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 Post subject: batch file names..
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:30 am 
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Shawn wrote:
Quote:
The latest version of MYIDEMAN works fine with 3.5F. There is not currently a way to import/export descriptions from my "image table" to Sijmen's "START" image function. I will eventually write a utility to do this.


Is this utility still on your to do list.. I hope so I like the sort and view options. :? But if you batch in a bunch of images from APE loader then viewing by type has to be changed and a lot of editing 8.3 filenames. Also, Hias's Myidetool program drops the long file names in the same place as Mr. Atari's routine. Very easy editing of image names, but no sorting or viewing by type. :) I want to keep using MyIDEman.com. Thanks for everything.. A utility to copy filenames from image slot to the manager..
RoyE



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 Post subject: Re: batch file names..
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 5:51 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:21 am
Posts: 251
roye wrote:
Is this utility still on your to do list.. I hope so I like the sort and view options. :?


I have added the ability for my program to synch the description with Mr.Atari's image manager whenever you do a create or a rename, but this is a one way process only. I don't currently have any method to "import" the description from the Mr.Atari image manager into my Image Manager.

I could add the ability to bring the existing descriptions over during the intial image table creation, if anyone thinks that would be useful.

Quote:
But if you batch in a bunch of images from APE loader then viewing by type has to be changed and a lot of editing 8.3 filenames.


The MyIDE Image Batcher allows you to select the category of the images you are importing. As well, the newest version, when used with APE 2.3.9 or greater, will grab the long filename from APE/Windows and use that to set the description. Much better than the 8.3 filename method I was using before.

Quote:
Also, Hias's Myidetool program drops the long file names in the same place as Mr. Atari's routine.


I haven't tried it yet, but it looks like a very cool program. I can't easily connect my Atari hard drive to my PC, so I haven't used it yet.

@Hias: would you consider supporting my Image Manager in your PC tool? I'll post the details of the image manager image table format if you are interested.

Quote:
I want to keep using MyIDEman.com. Thanks for everything.. A utility to copy filenames from image slot to the manager..


You're welcome, thanks for the feedback. I can import the name from the image slot to my image manager, the only question is when? During initial image table creation, or some other time? A seperate utility for those people using Hias PC tool?



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 Post subject: Re: batch file names..
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:45 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 187
Location: Salzburg, Austria
Hi Shawn!

Shawn Jefferson wrote:
@Hias: would you consider supporting my Image Manager in your PC tool? I'll post the details of the image manager image table format if you are interested.

Sure, just send me some details and I'll see what I can do!
BTW: I have't used your MyIDE tools so far, so I'll first have a look at your image manager to understand the concepts behind it.

Quote:
I can import the name from the image slot to my image manager, the only question is when? During initial image table creation, or some other time? A seperate utility for those people using Hias PC tool?

OK, it may be a stupid question: why not just store the names (i.e. the names you assing to an image with your image manager) in the image slot just like the image functions of the MyIDE OS?

so long,

Hias


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 Post subject: Re: batch file names..
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:21 am
Posts: 251
HiassofT wrote:
Sure, just send me some details and I'll see what I can do!
BTW: I have't used your MyIDE tools so far, so I'll first have a look at your image manager to understand the concepts behind it.


Sure, I'll PM you.

Quote:
OK, it may be a stupid question: why not just store the names (i.e. the names you assing to an image with your image manager) in the image slot just like the image functions of the MyIDE OS?


For a couple of reasons:

1. my program pre-dates the built-in routines ability to store a description, so I had to come up with something on my own (that wouldn't break compatibility too much.)

2. I wanted to be able to sort the descriptions, search them, as well as a few other things (assign categories to images for instance.)



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 Post subject: Re: batch file names..
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 187
Location: Salzburg, Austria
Hi Shawn!

Thanks a lot for the infos you sent to me!

Shawn Jefferson wrote:
2. I wanted to be able to sort the descriptions, search them, as well as a few other things (assign categories to images for instance.)

I was thinking about another thing:

Store the categories and image order just like you do now, but take the image names and density settings directly from the image slots (like the newer MyIDE OSes do).

If I understood your docs correctly, it should be possible to seamlessly integrate this feature into myideman:
Set your "images_init" flag to 2 (instead of 1) to indicate the new version.
You can read your data as you did. After reading in all data, check if the flag is 2. If yes, read the image names and density settings directly from the image slots. Your data structures will stay the same, only the source of the information will be different.
When you write back the data to disk, you should also write the image names and density settings back to the image slots (maybe only if flag >=2). This won't harm older MyIDE OSes, but new OSes can then automatically take advantage from the previously entered names.
If you write back the full information to your data area (including names etc.) older myideman versions should be able to use these settings as well.

To convert the data to the new version, all you have to do is set the flag to 2 before writing back all data. I guess the best solution would be to add an option to your menu so the user can choose if he likes to upgrade or not.

There's only one drawback: reading and writing the names will take a little bit longer. But then, if you add an option to your program so that users can skip this, everything would be fine again :-)

So, my proposed changes, in pseudocode:
Ask the user if he wants the new format, store the result in "int newFormat".

After reading image information:
if (images_init >= 2 && newFormat) {
    read_names_from_image_slots();
}

After writing image information:
if (images_init >= 2 && newFormat) {
    write_names_to_image_slots();
}


So the changes to your code would be minimal, you'll only need to implement the two routines to access names in image slots.

What do you think about that?

so long,

Hias


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 Post subject: Re: batch file names..
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:21 am
Posts: 251
HiassofT wrote:
Store the categories and image order just like you do now, but take the image names and density settings directly from the image slots (like the newer MyIDE OSes do).


That's not a bad idea. I'll think about what it will mean for the program to do that. Certainly the read partitions and search functions will have to change. Scrolling will be slower, since a load from two positions on the hard drive will have to occur per entry. Searching will also be a little slower.

Quote:
What do you think about that?


Thinking some more about it, the only thing this will buy me is that any changes made to existing images in Mr.Atari's image routine will also show up in my program, but only for images that are already setup in my program, since I only read/display images up to next_image_entry (which initially starts at 0). Unless I could put some logic in to try and determine if an image is actually there or not, and if it is, display it (and increment next_image_entry too.)

I guess these changes will make it easier for your PC tool to support my program as well, since you may not have to do anything in that case?



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 Post subject: Re: batch file names..
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:54 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:49 am
Posts: 187
Location: Salzburg, Austria
Shawn Jefferson wrote:
HiassofT wrote:
Store the categories and image order just like you do now, but take the image names and density settings directly from the image slots (like the newer MyIDE OSes do).


That's not a bad idea. I'll think about what it will mean for the program to do that. Certainly the read partitions and search functions will have to change.

I don't know how you implemented the functions, but basically you can keep your functions and data structures as they are and just need to change the I/O part. So the transition should be quite smooth (and you shouldn't have to change too much).

Yet another idea:

At first I thought you read in all image information at program startup, then use this data, and later write it back to disk. Since you actually read data only when you need it, a separate converter program that does the transition from the old format to the new format maybe would be better.

In this case you might also think about changing the data format stored on disk. Actually you don't need the image names and density settings to be stored there. Just the image slot number and the category number. So the information for an image only takes 4 bytes (2 bytes slot number, one byte category, 1 reserved byte), a single image slot can then hold all the information for some 40000 images - quite plenty of space :-)

Changing the data format on disk will break compatibility with older versions of myideman but I think it would be worth thinking about it (it'll make things a lot easier in the future).

BTW: As for storing all this data it would be a good idea to store it as a standard image in, lets say, the last available image slot. For example, use the first 3 (SD) sectors for storing overall information (category names, option bytes, ...) and then use (DD) sectors 4..720 for the image settings (category, index slot number). Then assign a name like "myideman config" to that slot and the user will be able to easily back up all this information.

Quote:
Thinking some more about it, the only thing this will buy me is that any changes made to existing images in Mr.Atari's image routine will also show up in my program, but only for images that are already setup in my program, since I only read/display images up to next_image_entry (which initially starts at 0).

Not only that, if one assigns names to images with your program these names are also visible in the image routines of the MyIDE OS.

Quote:
Unless I could put some logic in to try and determine if an image is actually there or not, and if it is, display it (and increment next_image_entry too.)

That'd be the job of the converter program: merge your information with the new MyIDE OS image information. This also isn't too complicated and could be done this way:

First, create a bitset in RAM that indicates if an image slot was already processed (initialized with all zero - no images have been processed). Even if a user has 10000 image slots on disk this needs only 1.2k of RAM.

In a first loop, go through all the information stored in your old myideman settings:
- If the image slot contains no name and no density settings, write the name and density setting to that slot
- If the image slot contains name and density, and they match the myideman data, do nothing
- Otherwise ask the user what to do (i.e. which settings are correct)
Now mark the image slot as processed and continue to the next image.

In a second loop, check all the image slots that weren't handled in the first loop.
If you find an image slot with name and density settings, add it to your myideman table. Maybe the user should be asked what to do (i.e. skip the image, ask about the category etc.).

Then write back the myideman data and set the version to 2.

Lateron, merging new images into myideman will be a lot easier. In the first loop you'll only have to mark the images as processed (there's no need to merge any information) and then do the second loop as before. You could also ask the user for a starting and ending slot to speed up this process (in case he has a larger area of empty slots on disk).

Quote:
I guess these changes will make it easier for your PC tool to support my program as well, since you may not have to do anything in that case?

This is a positive side-effect, but not my primary goal. I really see the need for a single standard on storing image information. As long as one begins to use different programs merging all the data will become a real pain.

As for my PC tool: I could also implement the part that I described as "converter" program on the PC (at least for the second case where the information is already in the new format) and add switches to my tool to automatically import new images into myideman. Something like
"myidetool /dev/sda -i 20 --category 3 -w tools/*.atr -i 100 --category 8 -w games/*.atr" to write ATR images to the drive and set the category information or
"myidetool /dev/sda -i 1 --category 5 -B" to back up all images of a specific category.

so long,

Hias


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 Post subject: Re: batch file names..
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:21 am
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HiassofT wrote:
BTW: As for storing all this data it would be a good idea to store it as a standard image in, lets say, the last available image slot. For example, use the first 3 (SD) sectors for storing overall information (category names, option bytes, ...) and then use (DD) sectors 4..720 for the image settings (category, index slot number). Then assign a name like "myideman config" to that slot and the user will be able to easily back up all this information.


Yes, a good idea. In the new MyIDE OS scheme, this should be the very end of the drive instead of where I currently have my image table.

Quote:
Quote:
Thinking some more about it, the only thing this will buy me is that any changes made to existing images in Mr.Atari's image routine will also show up in my program, but only for images that are already setup in my program, since I only read/display images up to next_image_entry (which initially starts at 0).

Not only that, if one assigns names to images with your program these names are also visible in the image routines of the MyIDE OS.


This is already possible in my program, controlled by an option, on any create or rename.

Quote:
This is a positive side-effect, but not my primary goal. I really see the need for a single standard on storing image information. As long as one begins to use different programs merging all the data will become a real pain.


I agree that a standard image description format is needed. I will work towards this for version 4.0, which will move the image table to the end of the drive and make the other changes along the lines you have mentioned. I'll use the last image slot on the drive, store the image manager configuration in sector 1-3, and put the image table in sectors 4-720.

The convertor portion, to go from 3.x image table to a 4.x image table will be a seperate program and add logic to import the existing images in the Mr. Atari format into my program and vice-versa.

I can then remove the option to sync the Mr. Atari description, since it will do that automatically. I am still concerned a little by the hit on speed of scrolling that this will incur. I may have to redesign that part of it a little.

Quote:
As for my PC tool: I could also implement the part that I described as "converter" program on the PC (at least for the second case where the information is already in the new format) and add switches to my tool to automatically import new images into myideman. Something like
"myidetool /dev/sda -i 20 --category 3 -w tools/*.atr -i 100 --category 8 -w games/*.atr" to write ATR images to the drive and set the category information or
"myidetool /dev/sda -i 1 --category 5 -B" to back up all images of a specific category.


That would be great, IMO, so that if someone did want to use MYIDEMAN, they could use your program to put images onto their MyIDE disk and make them readable by my program as well.



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 Post subject: Re: More Image Issues
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:45 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
bf2k+ wrote:
1. For Shawn - I loaded some images thru MyIDEMAN.COM and they appeared to load fine into 3.5f beta cart. However when I boot to image list in MyIDE, nothing appears except the 0001 <B> S

Loading them thru Mr. Atari's method works fine. Is there a MYIDEMAN compatibility issue with 3.5f?

2. WHen a program like 7 cities asks for a map disk etc, I understand that the map disk needs to be the next image slot? Or am I missing something. If so, how do I get the switcvh to occur?


:shock:


Ok... hold on, this is the same problem I have, I think. I load multiple ATR images onto the drive partition space using Myidetool, and when I do a -l -L, I can SEE them, in their respective slot numbers...

But when I boot into MyIDE, all I see is the first slot... for example...

0001 <CBN> 2600 Adventure

Do I have to use a shift-key sequence to switch to ATR image 2, 3, 4, etc? Or should every slot appear? What I expected to see was...

0001 <CBN> 2600 Adventure
0002 <CBN> Archon
0003 <CBN> Bolderdash
0004 <CBN> Choplifter
0005 <CBN> Donkeykong etc...

And I figured I would move the joystick up and down and hit fire to select the ATR image I wanted to load.

Is this wrong? Because otherwise, I'm having this same problem.


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