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 Post subject: MyIDE issues
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
Below is the output of a myidetool \dev -l -L command in Win32 on a 4gb drive just fdisked with the myIde fdisk command...

C:\temp\atari\8bitPC\MyIDE>myidetool \\.\PhysicalDrive0 -l -L
MyIDE Tool V0.14 (c) 2006 by Matthias Reichl <hias@horus.com>

MyIDE partition table:
7752 cylinders 16 heads 63 sectors (1008 sectors per cyl)
Image space: first cylinder: 256 cylinders per slot: 2 total slots: 3748
partitions: 2 option byte: 00000000 drive bits: 00000011
part active drv start end dns sectors
1 yes D1: 1 2 DD 1008
2 yes D2: 2 68 DD 65535
3 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
4 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
5 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
6 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
7 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
8 no D0: 0 0 SD 0

Image slot information:
159: SD v J|fn t mBd=k qnwrmr
437: ED |!)/9?EV^ y'p(:@JZp&3>
506: SD :(g9Z ^dc(XKWIYX## Xdok
526: SD OnHW7M)i0G;LHi<DKj^P;<S0
673: SD 2$9@bhN A@%m m(iwUz
716: SD ^]]\\\\ZZZYYXV_UT\TT]TT
1051: SD H*'<o3lg[k3vezrx([((?((0)
1120: SD )&RQ)mbJN6w ,IIUE$jPM*>
1174: ED < << <Y
1316: DD L 0 *cslL \ 4*atlmnslL
1368: SD +36KcN& #rj$ Eib%+@&0#@bE
1629: DD /yGvpRWRmrYi3kd\f9y
1662: SD 5>n<tbAXLNS'9>X 6j)
1678: DD ?7JMno_'@v7(v\xR_V_
1955: ED $#q(V53Z.D $+D+%/#(|-!
2051: SD SRg/////SSSgSRg/////S
2294: ED e[_$Il $md
2825: SD nQ\vi@(=;7VCi1;w%2XwXg
3147: DD A A D D D E H L Q!YN^ E J M Z
3369: DD 1<VTVH9^NL]7T7A0Qa6
3483: ED *,#9]?z]*SAl +P,mi
3652: ED NMASE@U?GS=KQEJQ<JUFNSEMFFPCQ


I do not have a DOS disk, a disk drive, or a SIO2PC card or APE, so the drive has a low level format, but there is no Atari DOS format on the D1 drive.

I'm not real concerned with using the drive as a hard drive, I want to load images up and use this as a multicart for games.

I've been unable to successfully get an ATR images to copy over. Every one that I've tried so far has kicked up an error.

Ok... that isn't true, I just tried again, and so far, out of a huge amount of ATR files... I can only get one to copy over, as below... but I still get the weird corrupt slots with ASCII carbage in them...

C:\temp\atari\8bitPC\ROMS\[ATR]>c:\temp\atari\8bitpc\myide\myidetool \\.\Physica
lDrive0 -i 1 -w adv*.atr -L
MyIDE Tool V0.14 (c) 2006 by Matthias Reichl <hias@horus.com>
writing Adventure (19xx)(Max Manowski)[BASIC].atr to image 1

Image slot information:
1: SD Adventure (19xx)(Max Manowski
159: SD v J|fn t mBd=k qnwrmr
437: ED |!)/9?EV^ y'p(:@JZp&3>
506: SD :(g9Z ^dc(XKWIYX## Xdok
526: SD OnHW7M)i0G;LHi<DKj^P;<S0
673: SD 2$9@bhN A@%m m(iwUz
716: SD ^]]\\\\ZZZYYXV_UT\TT]TT
1051: SD H*'<o3lg[k3vezrx([((?((0)
1120: SD )&RQ)mbJN6w ,IIUE$jPM*>
1174: ED < << <Y
1316: DD L 0 *cslL \ 4*atlmnslL
1368: SD +36KcN& #rj$ Eib%+@&0#@bE
1629: DD /yGvpRWRmrYi3kd\f9y
1662: SD 5>n<tbAXLNS'9>X 6j)
1678: DD ?7JMno_'@v7(v\xR_V_
1955: ED $#q(V53Z.D $+D+%/#(|-!
2051: SD SRg/////SSSgSRg/////S
2294: ED e[_$Il $md
2825: SD nQ\vi@(=;7VCi1;w%2XwXg
3147: DD A A D D D E H L Q!YN^ E J M Z
3369: DD 1<VTVH9^NL]7T7A0Qa6
3483: ED *,#9]?z]*SAl +P,mi
3652: ED NMASE@U?GS=KQEJQ<JUFNSEMFFPCQ

Any suggestions?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
So, after I successfully copied the ATR image above over to the hard drive, I connected it back up to the 800XL...

According to Steve, I should power up with the START key held down. I tried this. I also tried a RESET with the START key held down.

In either case, it comes up to the normal multi-cart menu.

Additionally, when I fdisk this particular drive, when I Exit and Save, it does the flashing colors on the border for a second, then the entire screen turns pink and it hangs there. It never comes back up to a BASIC prompt.

I also noted that SHIFT-CTRL-D does not disable the hard drive, as a matter of fact, the only key combo that seems to work is shift-ctrl-tab for a reset.

I'm hoping that this is just operator error. Which doesn't seem unlikely, as I have NO experience with Atari 8 Bit DOS.

A couple of things worth mentioning... I've made two partitions, D1 and D2, D1 has 720 sectors, D2 has 65535, per a recent quick-start quide Steve sent me. D1 is raw and empty. D2 should be my Image partition, if I am understanding this correctly? D2 is raw, also, but I figured if I have successfully copied an ATR file over so that myidetool can see it with a -l -L switch, then that should work fine. Is this assumption correct? Or do I need to format all partitions, from the Atari, prior to transfering any data, including ATR disk images, to the drive from a PC?

Two other thoughts... is it possible that my 800xl has only 48k, and would that cause these problems? The only other machine I have to test on is an Atari 800, which is also 48k, and so that won't work either, right?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
I've tried several drives, including notebook 2.5" drives...

here is an IMB 2.5" drive... before and after copying an ATR file...

C:\temp\atari\8bitPC\MyIDE>myidetool \\.\PhysicalDrive6 -l -L
MyIDE Tool V0.14 (c) 2006 by Matthias Reichl <hias@horus.com>

MyIDE partition table:
4200 cylinders 16 heads 63 sectors (1008 sectors per cyl)
Image space: first cylinder: 256 cylinders per slot: 2 total slots: 1972
partitions: 2 option byte: 00000000 drive bits: 00000011
part active drv start end dns sectors
1 yes D1: 1 2 DD 1008
2 yes D2: 2 68 DD 65535
3 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
4 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
5 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
6 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
7 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
8 no D0: 0 0 SD 0

Image slot information:
269: SD wn=WQ_u'Bowg,(y|T^[%
1298: SD Iw2 O:iX'Fu5eU&Gx:l]/
1420: SD [USXUc.UcUS


C:\temp\atari\8bitPC\MyIDE>myidetool \\.\PhysicalDrive6 -l -L
MyIDE Tool V0.14 (c) 2006 by Matthias Reichl <hias@horus.com>

MyIDE partition table:
4200 cylinders 16 heads 63 sectors (1008 sectors per cyl)
Image space: first cylinder: 256 cylinders per slot: 2 total slots: 1972
partitions: 2 option byte: 00000000 drive bits: 00000011
part active drv start end dns sectors
1 yes D1: 1 2 DD 1008
2 yes D2: 2 68 DD 65535
3 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
4 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
5 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
6 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
7 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
8 no D0: 0 0 SD 0

Image slot information:
1: SD Adventure (19xx)(Max Manowski
269: SD wn=WQ_u'Bowg,(y|T^[%
1298: SD Iw2 O:iX'Fu5eU&Gx:l]/
1420: SD [USXUc.UcUS


When I had it hooked up to the MyIDE cart, I noticed similar behavior (I'm notcing it on all the drives now), when I Exit and Save from Fdisk. It'll either seem to hang, the colors will switch (a brown border, a completely pink screen, little variations with each drive)... and if it DOES reset and come back up, it never gets past the introduction text (MyIDE yada yada yada)... I assumed it was looking for a boot drive and not finding it and hanging... is that what IS happening? Or after I Exit and Save from fdisk should it come back up to the title menu with choices A, B and C again? Because if it should, that isn't happening.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:10 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
So...

I guess I need to elaborate.

Getting into the ATR image area was operator error. I hadn't RTFM closely enough and was actually trying to enter the menu to COPY ATR files to the drive from a floppy. Once I did that right, it came right up, and I could see the single file that had copied over using the myidetool.exe utility. I was able to load it, view the directory, do all the things that this ATR image is supposed to do.

Emboldened, I went back and tried again. I knew previously that Nachocientos's atrmyide GUI application seemed to be able to copy all of my ATR images to the drive, and that once copied, myidetool would see them when I did a "-l -L on the drive. I first tried copying all my ATR images using myidetool, and it failed on the second image. I then tried atrmyide, and it copied all of the ATR files over, without any errors.

Once it was copied, I did a "-l -L" on myidetool to confirm that the files showed up in the slots on the hard drive...

C:\temp\atari\8bitPC\MyIDE>myidetool \\.\PhysicalDrive2 -l -L
MyIDE Tool V0.14 (c) 2006 by Matthias Reichl <hias@horus.com>

MyIDE partition table:
4200 cylinders 16 heads 63 sectors (1008 sectors per cyl)
Image space: first cylinder: 256 cylinders per slot: 2 total slots: 1972
partitions: 2 option byte: 00000000 drive bits: 00000011
part active drv start end dns sectors
1 yes D1: 1 2 DD 1008
2 yes D2: 2 68 DD 65535
3 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
4 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
5 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
6 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
7 no D0: 0 0 SD 0
8 no D0: 0 0 SD 0

Image slot information:
1: SD 2600 Adventure (1986)(Tony Ra
2: SD RVPP adventure HQYXVIHtony ra
3: SD SdMpac HQYXXIHraindorfMsoftI
4: SD adventure HQYxxIHmax manowski
5: SD archon HQYXSIHelectronic arts
6: SD archon HQYXSIHelectronic arts
7: SD arena SPPP HQYXRIHmed systems
8: SD asteroids HQYXQIHatariI
9: SD atari nuclear power plant HQY
10: SD atlantis HQYXSIHimagicIkMfil
11: SD atlantis HQYXSIHimagicIreq o
12: SD bcGs quest for tires HQYXSIHs
13: SD berzerk HQYXSIHatariI
14: SD bounty bob strikes backA HvTI
15: SD demon attack HQYXRIHimagicIa
16: SD donkey kong HQYXSIHnintendoI
17: SD missile command HQYXQIHatariI
18: SD montezumaGs revengeA HQYXSIHu
19: SD qMbert HQYXSIHparker brosIkM
20: SD space dungeon HQYXRIHtaitoIh
21: SD spy hunter HQYXSIHsegaIcr yo
22: SD tutankham HQYXSIHparker brosI
23: SD ultima iii M exodus HQYXSIHor
24: SD ultima iii M exodus HQYXSIHor
25: SD warlords HQYxxIHwebbed sphere
26: SD wizard of wor HQYXQIHroklanI
28: SD RVPP adventure HQYXVIHtony ra
29: SD SdMpac HQYXXIHraindorfMsoftI
30: SD adventure HQYxxIHmax manowski
31: SD archon HQYXSIHelectronic arts
32: SD archon HQYXSIHelectronic arts
33: SD arena SPPP HQYXRIHmed systems
34: SD asteroids HQYXQIHatariI
35: SD asteroids ii HQYxxIHincubusI
36: SD atari nuclear power plant HQY
37: SD atlantis HQYXSIHimagicIkMfil
38: SD atlantis HQYXSIHimagicIreq o
39: SD bcGs quest for tires HQYXSIHs
40: SD berzerk HQYXSIHatariI
41: SD bounty bob strikes backA HvTI
42: SD centipede HQYXQIHatariIakM
43: SD centipede HQYXQIHatariIkMfil
44: SD centipede HQYXxIHatariIURPP
45: SD centipede HQYXxIHatariIaUR
46: SD centipede HQYxxIHMI
47: SD choplifter HQYXRIHbroderbundI
48: SD choplifter HQYXRIHbroderbundI
49: SD civilisation HQYYUIHregenerat
50: DD clowns F balloons HQYXRIHdata
51: SD countermeasure HQYXRIHatariI
52: SD demon attack HQYXRIHimagicIa
53: SD donkey kong HQYXSIHnintendoI
54: SD missile command HQYXQIHatariI
55: SD montezumaGs revengeA HQYXSIHu
56: SD qMbert HQYXSIHparker brosIkM
57: SD space dungeon HQYXRIHtaitoIh
58: SD spy hunter HQYXSIHsegaIcr yo
59: SD tutankham HQYXSIHparker brosI
60: SD ultima iii M exodus HQYXSIHor
61: SD ultima iii M exodus HQYXSIHor
62: SD warlords HQYxxIHwebbed sphere
63: SD wizard of wor HQYXQIHroklanI
269: SD wn=WQ_u'Bowg,(y|T^[%
1298: SD Iw2 O:iX'Fu5eU&Gx:l]/
1420: SD [USXUc.UcUS

After, I take the drive up, hook it up to the MyIDE cart cable, power on the Atari, wait until the MyIDE menu comes up, then power on the drive. Once it shows it is ready, I hold down START and press "0" to boot into 48k no BASIC. The ATR image screen comes up, and I only see the first entry... and it appears as

1: SD RVPP adventure HQYXVIHtony ra

When I click it, Wizard of Wor loads.

1: SD 2600 Adventure (1986)(Tony Ra

Is a clean load of the title, without the corruption of the Win/DOS filename. It seems to be having trouble with the ( character and numerals when it is importing the image.

These files will not load using myidetool.exe, other than 2600 Adventure. Even if I try to load them as the only title, myidetool.exe always kicks up an error. But several of the files (Space Dungeon, Wizard of War), work fine, when they're copied over using ATRmyIDE.

I'm still not sure that this isn't operator error and that I'm doing something that is causing the problem, but something funky is going on.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:09 am 
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Posts: 1354
Location: netherlands
Hi there,

Lot of posts in a short time...... I'm sure Matthias will report about his tool.

MyIDE is a nice and cheap solution for Atari 8bit.
You have to know how it behaves and understand the results.

Ok. The 3.5F is a soft-OS loaded from the cartridge into RAM.
Soft means it can be whiped from memory by other programs.
So you have to be sure the ATR you load do comply to the Atari-standard in
OS-usage and do not use the RAM at C000-FFFF (here sits the 3.5F OS).

About images. The garbage text is information found on the drive/card.
There is no program to clean them. You need to do this by hand if you want.
(select the image, press on "C" and then "N" to Clear and Name it).

Perhaps you should try 1 image first were you 100% sure it works. Like a DOS disk.
Remember that images are write protected at bootup/reset. So you need to
press shift+control+U to unprotect the image before saving data.
Then stadily continue with more images and check if they load with the 3.5F-OS.

Cheers,
Sijmen.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:15 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
I'm very impressed with the cart, especially at the price. It is a great bargain and I'm certainly willing to work with it's limitations.

So, the strange thing is, whenever I hold down Start and Press 0 to bring up the Image partition area, I get something like this...

0001 <CBN> HWIZXXXGH demon attack

There is no 0002 slot, nothing but the first slot. I can move the cursor left or right with the joystick... but it won't go up or down.

In this case, I copied Demon Attack to the cart first, then Donkey Kong to the second slot, using ATRMyIDE by NachoCientos from AtariAge.

Demon Attack loads and plays fine. Any ATR file I copy over with ATRMyIDE that works in my emulator works fine on the real hardware, but I can only copy one game over at a time, anything past the first slot isn't shown in the menu. And finally, and most frustrating, ONLY the 2600 Adventure file can be copied over by the myidetool utility, everything else that I have fails the sanity check.

I just tried to edit the 0001 slot above, per your instructions, and entering C and then N had no response.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
So, with the assistance of Classics/Steve, I've been able to boot a MyDos disk image from the image partition, format/initialize the hard drive, and install the DOS files on the drive, which will now boot to MyDos.

But, I still can only see ONE image in my image partition, no matter how I configure it. Although I did discover that a great majority of my files are trucated K-file ATR images converted from executables. I've sorted through and pulled out all of the right ATR files and they're loading to the image partition fine using myidetool, except for the fact that I can only see the first one.

But, this leads to another question. I've got a fair collection of XEX executable files. I decided to try the MYIDETOOL -P -W function to copy those files to partition 2, but it kicks up an error, not an ATR file.

So, I can copy ATR image files to the actual partitions in addition to the Image File space, but I can't use myidetool to copy executables to the partition space? What can I do with an ATR image file once it is copied to a DOS formatted partition?

I don't understand why the function is there. It seems that it would be more useful to be able to copy executable files to partitions, and ATR files to image space.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
Oh, when you say Press on C then N to clear the text and name it...

Are you referring to the <CBN> between the slot number and the image name title? So I scroll the cursor over to C, click fire... then scroll over to N and click fire?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:09 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
Posts: 44
Ok...

So, I'm not sure if I wasn't asking right, or if people weren't understanding me, but I've made a breakthrough...

In the Partition Image Menu, when you see

0001 <CBN> ATR Image Name S

That *is* all you see... there isn't a list of the different slots.

To CHANGE the slot, you move the cursor to the left or the right over the digit...

For example, to change to slot 0002... you would highlight over the 1 in 0001 and move the stick up ONCE.

To move to slot 0011, you would move the cursor over the 3rd 0 from the left, and move the stick up...

To move to slot 0111 you would move the cursor over the 2nd 0 from the left.

Once I figured this out, all of those titles I had loaded were there.

And most of them loaded...

I'm still working out some of the details... for example, the slots do not match the game images that I have there. But I originally had made an Image with the setting for S, not M... and copied the files over. Under that setting, games would just hang. I went back into Fdisk and reset the Image to have a density setting of M, not S... and then the games loaded, but the listings were for the wrong game (Wizard of War loads Q-Bert, Donkey Kong loads Demon Attack).

Now that I have gotten this far, I noticed that the smaller, truncated K-file ATR image files that myidetool will not load onto the drive DO work in the Image Partition, you simply need to load them onto the drive with Nachocientos's ATRMyIde file, available on the Atariage 8 bit forums. (assuming you are not using APE and SIO2PC).

I've ran out of time for this, and I'm leaving on a vacation for 5 days. I think my next step is going to be to reinit the drive completely, and make a new image partition area set up as HiCyl 1 and Density M, then recopy all my truncated K-file ATR images back over. I think that then I will find that the right images are in the right slots and are working fine.

Some documentation would have made this a lot easier. It is unfortunate that legitimate customers are suffering right now because someone is using your documentation to support a pirated version of this cart.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:13 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:57 pm
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On playing around a little more (this is going to make me miss class tomorrow morning for sure)...

All of the recent k-file ATR images that I copied over are displaced by ONE slot... that is, if I copied Donkey Kong to slot 0025, and slot 0026 is Space Dungeon, clicking on Space Dungeon will load Donkey Kong. Likewise, if 0024 is Q-Bert, clicking on 0025 Donkey Kong will load QBert...

So I'm sure the problem is that I had the image partitions set up as S density, then changed it to D density after I had copied these images over. But they almost ALL work.

Oddly, the full sized ATR images that are not K-Files that I copied over with Myidetool mostly do NOT work.

Anyhow... I've ran out of time for now, but I'm certain the card isn't at fault, and I'm pretty certain that I know how to correct the problems as well. I'll be working on a walkthru document on how to set up and copy files while I'm away, and I'll test it out when I get back and post my results here.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:37 am 
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Ok, I'm glad you find your way in handling around with MyIDE.
The basics are all here in this post about the new 3.5 release.
http://www.atarimax.com/flashcart/forum ... .php?t=357

Now, image-loading S or M..... This is a new item (I'm still working on a manual).
It's for saving room since MyIDE uses cylinders and not LBA.
Atari S disks are 720 sectors and if your HD has 1008 sec/cylinder, 1 cylinder is used for 1 image.
Atari M disks are 1040 sectors so you will need 2 cylinders to store it!!
(S or M doubles the capacity of images).

Anyway, the 3.5F-OS is free of bugs here. It uses the correct slot-number and density is a dummy.
Only 128 or 256 bytes/sec is toggled, the OS always tries to access the cylinders given for images.
If it stops at sector 1008, you get a error when reading sector 1009....
When you copy (using the build-in routines) disks from D1: to image using the onscreen ">" it works fine.

Now, about the tools outthere, Matthias tool would be fine (that is what I use).
But I'm not sure if the "S" density is supported since it will overwrite the name of the image
that is on the very last sector of the image. Trying to copy 1040 sectors will surely whipe it
and give some garbage text.

Hope this gave some more light.

Cheers,
Sijmen.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:39 am 

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This is where I am at a disadvantage, because I've never paid a lot of attention to disk geometry, especially once you get into block and sector type schemes where things don't break down into easy to understand bytes.

So, I'll take your word for this, and the logic SEEMS reasonable. :)

But, I think my results indicate that user error along with some misconfiguration between the MyIDE cart and MyIdeTool are what are causing the problem... I'm also introducing ATRMyIde by Nacho Cientos into the mix, and both of the applications are kind of beta/developmental in nature. So, between playing around with the FDISK settings for density and then copying "good" full sized ATR files of 91k and truncated k-file ATR files to the drive, from a PC, using two different applications, while also changing the Denisty setting on the drive *AFTER* those files have been copied, I'm not surprised at all that things are a little screwy. :)

My next steps are going to be to fdisk the drive again with the settings in your quick start guide, make the partitions, then copy the K-File ATR images using ATRMyIDE... I think that'll resolve my problems with the images not matching the slots they show in.

And then, I'll be ready to enjoy some classic 8-bit games on real hardware. Already played around with BCs Quest, and, it is night and day compared to the 5200 conversion, even with a digital stick on the 5200.


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