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 Post subject: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 27
I am trying to understand the FAT32 Loader and how it reacts to number of files/folders to display them...

I started out very primitive, by just dumping a huge collection of files onto the root folder (it was about 5000...)

When using the Loader, I noticed that it only displayed a certain amount of files, so I thought I would organize them into folders to be able to access them all. Mind you that while it did take a little while for the loader to show me the files, it was not very long and very reasonable.

Additionally, I also saw this:

“Directories containing more than 50 files will NOT be automatically alpha-sorted when loaded.

Sorting hundreds of long strings on a 1.79mhz CPU takes a LONG TIME. Just loading them can take awhile if you use huge directories.

For this reason, try to keep your directories to less than 50 files, use sub-directories to catagorize them. “


So I said, ok, let’s change this. I cut it down to about 1200 files, and made folders for them all, making sure each folder had only 50 files in them.

I then go test it out, and surprisingly it takes FOREVER to show the folders... and then forever AGAIN for each folder and the same if you return to the root...

What is going on here...? :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:15 am
Posts: 1317
Location: netherlands
I will upload a video shortly.

You see my setup and loading BC's quest for tires.
Its in a sub-directory (XEX) then (B) and I sort the files.
So you have a indication how long it takes.

Alternatively you can try the patched SIDE-loader I did before FAT32-loader was born.
Its a ROM-file you can load with the FAT32-loader, just to see how that works for you.
I put that on video too.

Back later.


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:51 am 
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Zipped 2 videos :-)


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:22 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 27
mr-atari wrote:
Zipped 2 videos :-)


Thanks!

I will upload one later, as it’s 4am here :D

But the speed I get is nowhere like that....you’ll see


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:37 am 
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Location: netherlands
10 am over-here (Netherlands).

Take your time, no rush.

The "B"-folder has 153 files BTW.


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 27
mr-atari wrote:
10 am over-here (Netherlands).

Take your time, no rush.

The "B"-folder has 153 files BTW.


Hi there!

Sorry it took so long, but unbelievably only now could I sit down with this again...

Anyway, let me tell you what I experienced, because something is definitely wrong here...

Tracing back:

- Originally I threw a lot of files at the root. This came up pretty fast, but I could not see all the files.
- I then proceeded to create folders per letter (A1, A2, B-D, etc.) and place all files in the corresponding folders. This made it terribly slow, and from the moment I hit enter to start fat32 loader, until I saw all the files/folders on the screen took well over a minute...

After seeing your videos I did two things:

1) Create a "XEX Games" folder, and moved all the letter folders with their files into this folder
2) Copy to the root the Side loader patched for MyIDE-II that you attached.

This is the behaviour I see:

1)
- From the moment I hit enter to start FAT32 loader until I see the files appear, it AGAIN keeps taking almost a minute
- Once I enter the XEX Games folder, I can navigate the letter folders and look at the contents, and these all show up relatively fast (1-3 seconds). This is maintained as long I remain within the XEX Games folder.
- If I jump back to the root, AGAIN it takes well over a minute to show the list...

2)
- If once the FAT32 loader shows me the files I choose the Side loader, when it loads I *see* the list of files on the root folder --but it takes between 25-30 seconds -- before the selection bar appears and I can navigate the folder structure.
- Navigating the folder structure (once again inside the XEX Games folder) is almost instant, like your video. HOWEVER, again if I jump back to the root folder, the selection bar disappears, and only comes back after about 25-30 seconds...

So not really sure what's going on. I am discarding the cart being the problem (unless it's the batch like with the power/initialization issue) because it also happens to a friend, plus I have a second cart here and the same happens on it as well.

Any clues? Do you think it could be the card? (coincidentally my friend has the same card, a 4GB Sandisk Ultra)


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:02 am 
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Location: netherlands
Up to now, I have no idea.
Best is to send a pm to Steve, I guess.
How many files are left in the root?
More files equals more time to load/show them.


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:02 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 27
mr-atari wrote:
Up to now, I have no idea.
Best is to send a pm to Steve, I guess.
How many files are left in the root?
More files equals more time to load/show them.



Not at the Atari now, but there were probably about 4-5 folders and 3-4 files in the root.

In any case, I found a spare card I had. Same brand, same product line (Sandisk Ultra) only 8GB instead of 4Gb, this was just “as is” with the whole card as it came out of the box with the entire space as a FAT32 partition.
I copied everything over and the issue is NOT happening.

I wonder if it’s this particular card it doesn’t like for some reason? Or maybe the process/partitioning that was done? (Following the guide with half for mybios/half FAT32)


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:15 am
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Location: netherlands
Seems a card issue / compaitibily then.

Partitioning is nothing special.
The card is not altered in any physical way.
The process only adds a second partition and reduces the first.
Windows then needs to re-formats the first for fat usage.
The MyIDE partition contains raw data.
Nothing to it, 16 bytes altered on the bootsector....


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:30 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 27
mr-atari wrote:
Seems a card issue / compaitibily then.

Partitioning is nothing special.
The card is not altered in any physical way.
The process only adds a second partition and reduces the first.
Windows then needs to re-formats the first for fat usage.
The MyIDE partition contains raw data.
Nothing to it, 16 bytes altered on the bootsector....


Yeah, I guess. I mean, I hope this is just incompatibility and not that the card is faulty, so I can at least use it for something else.

I am not too thrilled to use this card though, seems like waaaaay to much for an Atari 8 bit. Might see if there are smaller ones that the cart likes instead of “wasting” 8GB.

What is in your opinion a decent size?


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:56 am 
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Location: netherlands
Hmm, there could be an issue with your card, yes.
But you can never tell from the outside.
Occasions like this, points out something is a mis.

You can try to erase sector 0, that is the bootsector.
With a sector editor or something like it.
Then re-pop it in the PC and let it re-partition/re-format it.
Its then again FAT only, copy the files back and see.
Compare the time needed to copy the files over (to the 8gb).
If the problem persists or it takes longer to copy, there is a problem somewhere.

I normaly buy trancend 1gb 80x.
Found cheap on ebay/ali, aprox 8 USD


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:44 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:07 pm
Posts: 27
mr-atari wrote:
Hmm, there could be an issue with your card, yes.
But you can never tell from the outside.
Occasions like this, points out something is a mis.

You can try to erase sector 0, that is the bootsector.
With a sector editor or something like it.
Then re-pop it in the PC and let it re-partition/re-format it.
Its then again FAT only, copy the files back and see.
Compare the time needed to copy the files over (to the 8gb).
If the problem persists or it takes longer to copy, there is a problem somewhere.

I normaly buy trancend 1gb 80x.
Found cheap on ebay/ali, aprox 8 USD


Thanks, I will give it a try and see!

Any links you can point me to in order to learn more about the rest of the functionality and what one can do with the cart beyond just the fat32 loader?


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 Post subject: Re: FAT32 Loader number of files and speeds
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:15 am
Posts: 1317
Location: netherlands
Try to get familiar with the atari.
When you get the hang of it, working with it, its time to go further.
Using MyBIOS makes it possible to load/save to/from CF-card.
Without, the system has no knowlegde how to use it.
You can only access devices known to the BIOS....

Easy question, hard answer.
Sorry.


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